Actual dialogue between my white boyfriend and I yesterday night:
“Honey, when you look at me, do you feel colonial?”
“What are you talking about?”
“Am I a proxy for you to sexualize all Asian women?”
“Are you on the Internet again?”
Yes, I had been online again. A reader, frustrated with how I constantly deny that my white male/Asian female relationship follows certain “societal streams,” pointed me to an article which he believed would enlighten me on the nature of my relationship and others like mine.
The article summarizes a new study which is flat out absurd, insensitive, bigoted, and racist — but since it’s conducted under the dignified umbrella of academic research, it’s perfectly acceptable to put these ideas out there.
Two privileged white female academics get together and make powerful statements about women who they deem unprivileged. These nuggets of wisdom include the suggestion that unprivileged women exchange their bodies for the material benefits and social status associated with the privileged white men whom these academics feel are most suited to their own caste. At a minimum, their study “proves” that privileged white women (like themselves) wouldn’t jump into those white guys’ beds as quickly as those coloured hussies. After all, they have statistics to prove it.
Their hypotheses, quoted from their actual paper:
Hypothesis 1: The tempo of sex and cohabitation will be fastest for relationships involving white men and minority women and slowest for relationships involving white women and minority men.
Hypothesis 2: Interracial relationships will progress more slowly from sexual involvement to marriage than racially homogamous relationships.
Hypothesis 3: Some factors increase involvement in different types of relationships (e.g., interracial romances) and hasten sexual involvement and shared living, producing spurious effects.
Using data from two 2002 U.S. national surveys to analyze the heterosexual relationships of youths ages 18-24, the two white female academics responsible for this paper extrapolated enough evidence to suggest that white men and minority women:
- On average, had sex after one month of dating, almost twice as fast as white-white couples;
- Moved in together quicker than same-race partners;
- Persisted in “status-caste exchanges.” A quote from the actual paper: “…minority women partnered with white men received the highest values on interviewer-rated physical attractiveness, while white men with minority women reported the highest personal income.” Basically, the pretty minority women traded their looks for men with money.
Take away the polite academic jargon, and what the paper basically says is that minority females are sluts and gold-diggers.
According to the two authors’ interpretation of their data, the pace of sexual involvement and cohabitation for white women and minority men did not differ significantly by race of partner. I.e., white women are not as likely to be sluts and gold-diggers, and minority men are not creeps who let women use them sexually and financially.
Here’s how they turn human beings into automatons:
While “solidarity and affection and personal choice” no doubt remain important aspects of relationships (Rosenfeld 2005:1320), there is also strong evidence of status exchange.
I don’t understand why “status exchange” is presented as the particular domain of white men dating minority women. What man does not prefer a physically attractive woman as a partner, same-race or interracial? What woman does not prefer a financially viable man, same-race or interracial, especially if she is not well-off herself? Would a Chinese woman raised with the cultural expectation that her husband of whatever race must earn more than her (whether she pursues that sort of man or not), treat notions of status exchange as an epiphany? Until anyone can declare that white men rarely pursue attractive white women and minority women rarely care about the financial status of minority men, it is careless to make harmful, sweeping generalizations about how special sex and money are in minority women’s relationships with white men.
However, what I find most absurd about this study is that it looks at couples aged 18-24 (to be fair, the authors do acknowledge their age range is limited). The data consists of those barely out of college, many of whom had yet to start their careers. How do you significantly comment on the economic traits of people so young? And how much can these fledgling relationships built on little life experience accurately reflect the diverse circumstances in which interracial pairings come together?
In the end, this study is great ammunition to fuel the hatred of those who already think that white male/minority female relationships are unequal and unhealthy and rotten to the core. If I were trying to reverse anti-miscegenation laws, I would treat this paper as polite printed justification backed by the ivory tower. I would bask in the paper’s line of argument, that minority women and white men rush into relationships too quickly, have “less time to gather information on a prospective partner and ascertain whether goals and values are compatible,” have less support from family and friends, have higher chances of contraceptive failure and abortions. After all, “interracial relationships are not like all relationships; these couples generally perceive less acceptance and encouragement from family and friends (Vaquera and Kao 2005),” and thus have the highest chances of failure.
The results of this study brought back the nausea I felt for academia after years of social sciences. I always found it distasteful, the act of using quantitative data to meaningfully explain human motivations and actions, data manipulation and researcher bias often brushed aside in a footnote. I’m still flabbergasted that someone decided to send me this article to “teach” me something about myself and my choices, since apparently writing an academic paper makes one more qualified to talk about these issues than living each day as a minority woman in an interracial relationship.
Did you read the paper Sunny Woan wrote? It comes to very similar conclusions, and was the article I cited in the comment you linked to that I wrote. But you never mention that article in this post, only the one from Cornell U. Sunny Woan is a very smart, successful Asian-Amerian woman (so you can’t write-off her research just because because a “privileged white female academic”, as if that relates to their quality of research somehow. A lil racist there you were eh?).
-Link to article I cited: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1138351
As for your comment on being more qualified to talk about these issues than living each day as a minority woman in an interracial relationship, please don’t get all bitter on me. You seem to be taking this very personally. First, if I were to cite myself as an expertise vs you, my dating repertoire alone (just from my first term of senior year of college ) is probably more diverse than yours.
But, I’m trying to have an academic discussion. This has nothing to do with your particular relationship specifically, or mine. I’ve made that point clear multiple times, and I don’t see why you have to be bitter. Much of the purpose of sociological studies is to follow behavioral streams. I’m speaking on an academic level, not to have some kind of a crazy “My relationship is specciial, we have truue love” back-and-forth with you. You’re from Queen’s, you should be able to digest sociological research better. I’d have more to say on Sunny Woan’s research, but I’m typing on a phone right now. I’d highly suggest you read that too, because I highly doubt you have.
Having worked in academic research for many years, I would like to point out that the paper by Sunny Woan is published in the Washington and Lee Journal of Civil Rights and Social Justice Law. This journal is not peer-reviewed, so I question the validity of any of the comments or views.
If you would like to have an academic discussion, use better sources for your arguments. Surely they taught you that at your school?
Kyle, you ended all possibility of academic-level discussion when you resorted to personal insults such as putting down my alma maters. Have a good senior year, and I wish you all the best on the West coast. I look forward to your own future academic papers.
Strikes me that Kyle or whatever his name is has that special social disease that often accrues to the personality extremities of the young and/or sheltered: a tendency to cover up deficiencies by resorting to academics, lingo, and school rankings, rather than show s/he has an actual understanding of human beings. Per that: “Much of the purpose of sociological studies is to follow behavioral streams.” So here’s a behavioral stream to follow: what motivates young males, like Kyle to come to blogs written by young women, and demean their relationships? Misogyny? A strong subconscious need to control women who stray from the tribe? Overcompensation for other deficiencies?
Hi Christine, I’m a relatively new reader and has been following your blog since posts you’d been publishing at diaspora chinasmack!
Just wanted to share some articles with you (nothing to do with academic discussion purpose! I swear!) http://www.marcandangel.com/2009/08/10/i-am-my-own-worst-enemy/ Hmmm… the irony at the last paragraph.
“Status exchange” doesn’t JUST occur in a white male/asian female situation as the video in this shows http://www.ministryoftofu.com/2011/12/video-%E2%80%9Cman-without-money-is-trash-marriage-is-a-colossal-sum-transaction-%E2%80%9D/ You can just take it as ‘an entertainment value’ cos obviously those single chinese females don’t represent ALL asian females.
Hope you enjoy these links. They’re not meant to be provoking, just meant for entertainment purpose that makes you think for a while then forget about it lol.
I haven’t read either of the orginal academic articles in full – I only read the one Kyle linked in abstract form and that’s hardly sufficient to draw meaningful conlusions from and so therefore I’m unable to discuss anything about that study. That said, working on the assumption that the Chronical Online fairly represents the study’s findings, then I am with Christine. Kyle, it’s not racist to call someone white, privileged and female if that’s what they are. It’s also not meant to be an insult. In Sociology, is it not important to recognise the position from which you are analysing the world? I think these women could have done with a healthy dose of self-reflexivity when publishing these claims. They have added, as Christine points out, fuel to the fire that minority women are fast and only after the money of the white men they are with. By pointing this out as if it is a recognisable and unique fact from their position of academic privilege, it becomes accepted as fact in the minds and hearts of most people who hear it and don’t necessarily think to question it.
There are minority women who seek monetary advantage by being with a wealthy white man. Of course there are. There are also white women who seek monetary advantage by being with a wealthy white man, and a fair few men of all races who seek monetary advantage by hooking up with a wealthy women of various races. Seeking out a partner who is financially able is not a trait that is exclusive to minority women – but you see the problem here is that by publishing this study, these authors have made it sound as if it is. Also, because you nd up in a relationship with a financially capable person doesn’t mean you went out LOOKING for that. I’m a white female married to an Asian man who, at this point in time, earns significantly more than I do. It’s partially career choices, partially global location that dictates this earning differential but when we met we were both broke students. Sweep me under the umbrella of academic conclusions and I might look like I’m what I’m not.
Perhaps what you’re not grasping here, Kyle, is that this kind of thing IS personal. When people make generalisations about a group that you belong to, they make generalisations about you and when these generalisations are wrong and insulting, you feel wronged and insulted. It’s not a matter of who has “truue love” – we’re not in junior high – it’s a matter of being stereotyped. And when you’re already at a disadvantage due to these stereotypes, it stings to hear yet more misguided evidence for it.
Also just for reference – perhaps if you want to have an academic discussion it might help your cause to not use insults, assumptions like “I highly doubt you have read it” and jock-like claims about the diversity of your dating life in your comments. It’s just a thought.
Thanks for your comment, Kath. You write eloquently (you must love writing and books!), and I don’t have much to add. I didn’t think I was being racist by pointing out the researchers’ positions either. If they are going to publish a paper saying, essentially, that RACE MATTERS and has shaped the outcome of those relationships, then I’ll point to the researchers’ own backgrounds and ask whether race mattered in how this research was conducted.
I know personally 2 Chinese women with 2 white men make 2 to 3 times money than their white husbands. what the hell is this article is talking about? I really don’t believe what people write sometimes. What “F”ing research/survey?? throw that research in the trash can. waste of time and money. Another research says that Asian men need to make $250k in order for white women to show interest in them. What kind of lame research is this? Latino men ($75k) and blacks men ($150k)only have to make less than Asian men in order for white women to date you. I don’t believe all this nonsense! If there is no love involved , I as a Chinese man don’t even want to look at you no matter what’s your ethnicity. If a woman ( any race) only look at your salary and wealth just to be with you, don’t waste your time with her. What if you get sick and you can’t afford your lifestyle anymore ? What’s next? get a divorce and find another richer person? If every woman thinks like this, I rather go to bar or whorehouse man. Save the headache right? Why don’t you people open your eyes first and google all those websites out there. Wherever I click , I see white/black men are looking for asian women to hook up!!!!!!!!!!! there aren’t many asian men putting out ads in search of white women. I think white men are the ones who seek asian women out not the other way around. White men always say asian women are submissive! That’s is just BS. In asian culture, respect is taugh thru out our lives. Respect is mistaken for submissive here.Seriously, I really haven’t seen submissive asian women in my life. Most I know are well rounded, hard working and always take care of families. Is this called submissive to you white men? Asian are depicted as very sexual in the media?? compare western porn and asian porn man. Which one is more hardcore? It’s all about sterotype here. All I know is that the media, survey , and research have agenda behind them so minority men /women can’t date white men. You can date/marry whoever you please. who gives a damn! as long as you’re an honest, good human being.
Bruce
Here’s a very funny site that is a good reminder of how ridiculous some research can be: http://www.theawl.com/slug/a-study-has-found
If you look hard enough, there’s a study that proves anything.
I totally agree that it’s rather disorienting to look at research that claims society works in one way, then to look around you and realize your surroundings don’t work that way at all. Which should take precedence, your personal experience or the approved findings in a study? The older I get the less faith I have in many studies.
Like you, many of the Chinese women I know who have careers also make significantly more than their husbands, doesn’t matter whether their men are Chinese, other Asian, white, or black. Poor minority women, eh?
In revealing biases, it’s not enough to look at what people say and where they direct their attention. It’s also worthwhile to look at what they didn’t say, or ignored altogether.
As a minority woman in a [n inter-cultural/inter-racial/inter-ethnic/inter-religious/whatever] relationship with a minority man, I find that no one pays attention to us at all. Sure, it raises an eyebrow here or there, but, for most people, we are just “close enough.”
This is the phrase that most people use. “Oh, but your cultures are just close enough.” (They’re not).
No one cares about the little differences that we have to navigate through: different languages, different foods, different family expectations, different histories, different religious backgrounds, different hair (!!!)….none of it really matters.
And, just looking at us, it’s obvious. There’s no denying that we’re from two completely different sides of the world. Nonetheless, no one bats an eye.
I have to admit. I don’t envy your situation and all the negative attention that it gets. It is very liberating to fly under the radar. It’s much easier to make a relationship work when you can focus on the real differences at hand (e.g., “how can I show your mom and dad that I care about them, what do you think they would really love for me to do?”), rather than the differences and problems fabricated by ignorant, hateful, and judgmental people (e.g., “well, clearly you’re just a gold-digger!”).
Good luck, and stay strong!
That’s why I think umbrella terms like “minority women” and “minority men” which are splashed all over pieces of academic research, become so vague that they are essentially meaningless. Ethnic people are not all the same!
I’m reminded of a conversation I once had with a friend pursuing her sociology PhD. She, a minority woman herself (specifically of Indian descent), was tired of studying white imperialism and oppressed minorities. Of course there are racial hierarchies and power structures at play — we’re not in a post-racial world — but at some point, she said, too many studies by ethnic women concluding that they are fetishized, subjugated and disempowered by the white man felt like self-indulgent, academically-approved pity fests. Minorities have been bullied by the majority. Proven over and over again. Where do we go from there?
I think it would be far more interesting to study the dynamics of relationships such as yours, but it probably won’t be doing you a favor if the academic lens turns your way!
Thanks for the comment!
@Christine
“Which should take precedence, your personal experience or the approved findings in a study? The older I get the less faith I have in many studies.”
I totally get you on this point. I am a 30 year old white male with a liberal arts degree in an interracial relationship with an ethnically Chinese woman four years older than me. I have always heard about how women are discriminated against in society, how they are under-represented in business, earn less for the same amount of work etc etc.
But my personal life experience doesn’t square with that at all. From primary school to highschool, girls outperformed males of my generation academically. In university, they made up over 50% of the student population. In my course, probably 75% of the students. The imbalance was so high that a group of guys got together with the cheeky (but not unreasonable) idea of creative a white hetrosexual males club – on the grounds we were a minority group on campus. I can’t remember if they succeeded or not but I do remember a minor flame war erupting when a group purportedly representing female students’ interests took offence at the idea. In my working life, I’ve had more female bosses than male, including one boss who was the same age as me. And in most western societies, men die younger, are more likely to be assaulted, and have higher rates of suicide than their female counterparts.
My point is not necessarily that women do not struggle against institutionalised thinking. It’s that reality is a very complex thing and these complexities are often not really addressed in the presumptions of a lot of people, in the attitude of the media, and in many academic studies.
Anyway, sorry for the rant that was only loosely connected to the original post. I don’t have much to say about the study that has not already been said except to note that as well as being younger than my gf I am slightly less educated and slightly less financially well off, so my personal experience does not square with this study either.
I’d like to share a somewhat related story:
I majored in English literature, and spent my undergrad in Canada, Singapore, and a summer in the UK. No matter where my classroom was, the theme of “weak women” followed, and it became a joke amongst some of us women that, in order to get an A on an essay, all we had to do was eloquently discuss women’s roles in the novel/play/short story, usually with conclusions such as “but although these women appear as paragons of the empowered feminine and a celebration of unconventionality, they are unable to sustain their individualism and independence” (actual line). At the end of my third year, I’d had enough of weak female characters — and decided to write about weak men. I compared the men and women in two plays, and argued that although the women met their deaths at the hands of the men, the men were the truly weak, disempowered characters, because their downfalls were the result of their own culpability. My professor wasn’t impressed. The “right” way of analyzing this was, of course, to view the females as the truly weak/disempowered ones, even though they were the decent, moral, dignified characters. That’s when I realized it was slightly taboo to suggest women were anything but oppressed (in Renaissance plays, at least). Certain studies seem to follow set streams of thinking; try not to diverge from that path!
It’s funny how dogmatic academia can be at times.
I’m not quite sure I understand what all the fuss is about. The way I see it, there are a few simple facts regarding interracial relationships that explain most of the so-called “findings” quite easily, without making anyone a gold digger or creep:
(1) Those that pursue interracial relationships are much more likely to be daring, unconventional and individualistic than the average of their peers, because if you’re having such a relationship (assuming it’s a serious one and not just a meaningless affair), you’re facing all sorts of problems and implicit societal/parental/etc. disapproval. So you (i) either don’t care much about such “discouragements” because you’re anyway into doing your own thing, or (ii) the relationship is really good in order to be worth it in spite of the obstacles, or both.
(2) In case of (i), if the couple has these particular personality traits, of course they are also more likely to be faster and more decisive regarding sex and cohabitation. It tends to come with their personalities. If they are the types that fret for a year trying to figure out if they even want to begin a relationship, they are unlikely to make it, because all the self-doubt, all the destructive thoughts of “can an interracial relationship really work or is it destined to fail?”, underpinned by the persistent nagging from the unwilling mother-in-law-to-be will eventually get to them.
(3) In case of (ii), of course it helps if the girl is pretty and/or the guy is well-to-do. All other things equal, it makes the relationship more attractive to the potential partner and therefore more likely to happen. (There are all sorts of other factors that also make the relationship more attractive, but unfortunately, none of these can be measured based on the available data-set)
(4) Of course none of this applies to every interracial couple, it’s just about statistical correlations / likelihoods.
(5) Conclusion: So what? Have we learned anything? Yes, we have yet more evidence that academics need to come up with new papers all the time, because it’s a cruel world of publish-or-perish, and it doesn’t really matter if their findings are meaningful, as long as their citation score improves by another few points…
“Couples aged 18-24″ really undermines the whole study (Of course, the tiresome sterotypes undermine it too). I think if you dug around in the data you would find that persistent long term relationships from high school probably skew the sample substantially (these would tend to have have longer times to both sex and moving in due to their longer vintage, and are more likely to be non-interracial couples)
[Of course, the authors don’t need to bother with longitudinal tracking and quantitative metrics when they have such an array of sterotypes and bien-pensant prejudices – as an econ grad I need to get my shots in at the least scientific of the social sciences
The research is obviously flawed:
“On average, (white-asian) had sex after one month of dating, almost twice as fast as white-white couples.”
Surely the second date is sooner than a month from the first.
No offense, but this sounds like a lot of bottled up emotions with a dash of Western style feminism.
You’re not ZUN from 4chan are you?
I think the study is just outlining the obvious, not claiming minority women are sluts or gold-diggers. As you noted exchanging looks for money is a universal trend between men and women, interracial or not. On average, minorities are poorer and whites are richer. So it’s not really surprising this exchange is more prevalent amongst that coupling. If it was poor minorities immigrating to China I imagine some of the women would like a wealthy Chinese husband as well. I find it more a commentary on social status and its effects on dating than a study targeted at certain groups. Does every interracial couple date for money/looks? Of course not. But those that do skew the statistics.
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I totally agree with dim mak above. Christine, I generally find your blog to be very insightful and interesting, but this time I have to totally disagree with you. No offense, but I find your criticism of this research paper to be very bias, extreme, and severely lacking of insight. You are basically accusing this research study of not being true/correct, saying that status exchange is not a big part of white men/Asian women relationship dynamic, that Asian women do not trade sex for money from their white partners, and that such a situation exist in all relationship whether interracial or not. Therefore, this research paper proves nothing and only fuels negative stereotypes about white men/Asian women relationship. But I have one thing to say, what proof do you have to show that what is reported in this research is false. Show me the evident that proves white men/Asian women relationship are good, health, that most of these relationships are done out of love, that white men/Asian women relationship are equal. Prove to me that what is reported in this research is incorrect instead of just making accusations about small little detail that are not even a part of the research at hand. Proving your points makes a better argument then criticizing another’s argument. As for fueling negative stereotypes about white men/Asian women relationship, I have one thing to say, why the heck should research not fuel negative stereotypes, why can’t they?!?! There are negative stereotypes about relationships between Asian men and white women, so why can’t there be any for white men/Asian women!!! (oh, Asian men have small penis so they suck in bed, therefore they can’t please a white women. Although statistically white men are the most likely to be dumped or divorce on their sorry ass even though they make more money in general then Asian men. So if you ask me since white men are so good looking, have such big penis, then there can only be one reason they are getting dump/divorce on their ass more then me of other races, the sex must really suck!! So who really sucks in bed? The white men who doesn’t have half a clue how to use it (know wonder they are going around screwing little boys, you never heard about a black guy or an Asian guy doing it) or the Asian men who move it like a pro!) Perhaps fueling negative stereotypes will get Asian women to wake up and realize that white men are not as good partners as they are stupidly manipulated into thinking by the white controlled media!!!!! Fact of the matter is statistically white men have the highest divorce rate when they are married to an Asian women. Statistically, Asian women have a higher divorce rate if they marry a white men then an Asian men. Therefore, Asian women are the least compatible partner for white men and Asian women as most compatible with Asian men. Perhaps, negative stereotypes about white men/Asian women relationship will teach white men not to go for Asian women who are only interested in their money. Perhaps, negative stereotypes about such relationships will make Asian women think twice about dating/marring white guys who are only interested in them for their look!!!! If there were no negative stereotypes about such relationships we might as will say that no one should get marry except for white men with Asian women, because everyone knows that such relationships are so perfect and great(<Sarcasm, for the dense people out there)!!!!
I usually don’t bother commenting on articles, but even as someone in an interracial relationship, I found your post a little disconcerting.
It’s dangerous and warped to dismiss a study just because it clashes with your viewpoint. I haven’t properly analyzed the paper, but your reasoning against the study seems to be almost completely from your gut. You do mention the age bracket, but that doesn’t invalidate the study: it only qualifies and restricts it. If you had brought up potential weaknesses like poor sample selection, misleading parameters, etc., that would make sense, but I hate it when people reject statistics because it shows something ugly or un-PC.
Hi,
What you did was empowering the “biased” research through your popular blog. Just look at the comments you’re receiving. You’re giving the researchers the attention they wanted all along.
You picked it up from not-so-popular online magazines, where the articles weren’t even peer-reviewed. You’re actually helping the researchers achieve a good readership level that may later on help them gain more grants to expand their “academic” research.
If the researchers were able to expand the sample age brackets and follow them for several more years, it would be unfortunate if the results are the same negative one – “biased and racist”. The impact would be great – politically and socially.
Some dense politicians like Newt Gingrich, may use it in their campaigns and pushed “biased” governing policies based on it. Remember, he even commented French as a wishy-washy language… lol … If that is his opinion against WHITE FRENCH, then he could even find Chinese as even more delicious to flame about, especially with the billions of trade deficit with China.
My suggestion is, when you bumped into anymore “biased” studies, just leave it alone. It will die off, remain obscure and gather digital dust.
Is it wrong for a woman to attempt to improve her situation in life when marrying? History has thoroughly documented that practice all over the world for countless generations. Also, regarding this statement, “On average, (white-asian) had sex after one month of dating, almost twice as fast as white-white couples,” I would say the average is 3 dates regardless of whether WM/AF or WM/WF. The motivations may be different, however. The WF is typically just having fun, while the AF is more typically sealing the deal.