It’s been over a year since I started blogging about my conflicted feelings over being an Asian girlfriend to a white boyfriend, and how I grapple with the abundant negative stereotypes out there about my kind of romantic pairing. I’ve reached out to kindred spirits and harsh critics, laughed and cried and stewed over messages of support and empathy, condemnation and contempt. Sometimes, I prefer the critical messages as long as they’re civil. After all, these are the ones that really make me think. And after all these months, something suddenly hit me, my own little “Eureka!” moment.
Interracial relationships are okay until there’s too many of a certain type. It’s an unspoken belief, an unacknowledged assumption that underlies the most fervent disapproval of certain interracial pairings.
The right to be involved with and married to someone from another race was something that was fought for in many societies. Today, interracial marriage is usually celebrated as a civil right, a symbol of our common humanity. Not many people in the circles I’ve lived in would publicly speak against intermarriage, even amongst friends. It’s just not PC.
However, even amongst tolerant citizens, there seems to be an unwritten rule, one stating that interracial relationships are wonderful until too many of one type are getting involved with too many of another type. The racial hierarchy in relationships exists, and many times, readers have thrown figures at me, such as how a whopping 40% or so of Asian Americans marry whites, and the majority of these are Asian women and white men. There are other examples of this — not only are there “too many Asian women dating white men,” people grumble, there are also many more white women dating black men than the other way around. Even in my own Malaysia, I’ve heard dissatisfaction over why interracial relationships “are usually between Indian men and Chinese women.” In these situations, these couples no longer represent the wonderful result of a human right. Instead, it’s as if something is wrong with them.
And why are they in the wrong, anyway? Who decided that for interracial relationships to be celebrated and accepted and respected, there has to be a quota on certain pairings? That there is a correct ratio? That there has to be 100 white female/Asian male couples for every 100 Asian female/white male couples? That any racial hierarchy in interracial relationships must be explained using derogatory terms, the often repeated “yellow fever” and “white worship,” etc?
Many anonymous souls who complain that “there are too many white men with Asian women” invariably point to how there are fewer white women with Asian men to justify why the ubiquitous pairing sucks; they point to the disparity to “prove” there’s something problematic about white man/Asian woman relationships. On behalf of Asian women like me, I’d like to politely say: What’s this got to do with me? I am not a white woman nor an Asian man. I’d be very happy to see more of them dating each other. I tell white women their preconceptions of emasculated Chinese men are wrong. I tell Chinese men that foreign women make wonderful partners. Short of forcing my white female and Asian male friends together, I don’t have the solution. It’s between them. All those types who are not dating each other? It’s between them. White women and Asian men? Up to them. Black women and white men? Up to them. Indian women and Chinese men? Up to them too.
Decreasing interracial pairings which are common will not increase those which are uncommon. A ban on white men dating Asian women will not help more white women and Asian men get together. That problem, if you actually think of it as a problem, is due to factors that have little to do with whether white men and Asian women date each other.
“Sorry, white man and Asian woman. You seem like nice enough people, and we accept the general idea of interracial relationships, but your union is wrong because other nice people out there aren’t getting together at the same rate you are. You’ve used up your quota. Try again in a year or two.” Put this way, can the invisible quota be anything but ridiculous?
We are people. We love who we love, and we should keep on loving who we love, as long as we don’t belittle others to justify our choice. Disrespecting certain interracial pairings over others is just another type of small-minded discrimination, and perhaps nothing but an attempt to disguise racism by using ratio imbalance as a smokescreen, in the words of my wise uncle. I think it’s less ridiculous to be against interracial relationships entirely, than to say you approve of them so long as some sort of balance is enforced.
This piece was originally published as “Why I will keep writing about white male/Asian female relationships.”
Hi Christine!
I’m a longtime reader of your blog and a great fan. As a white male I’m also in a relationship with a Chinese lady. I plead guilty for the crime of upsetting your quota
From now on it will be called the Tan Quota.
Now when I think of the “invisible quota” I thought for myself: “But what are the numbers?” You go on about interracial relationships for years
but never gave us the numbers…
Finally I managed to get the detailed 1999 marriage numbers. I think while the figures are old the percentages will not have changed that much. You may come up with the detailed Tan quota for every province 
I then took on the great task of finding the details and turned heaven and libraries upside down
Now HERE they come: During 1999 a total of 54’076 weddings between a mainland person and an “outside the mainland” person were registered in the PRC. Of the 54’076 mainland persons only 5’862 were male. The 10.84% is the share the Chinese men could get
This indicates a 9:1 advantage for the “superior” Chinese wives. But now the details among ethnic groups: Only 14’122 partners were true foreigners while the other 39’954 were from Hong Kong, Macau, Taiwan and Overseas Chinese. Which means to me: Chinese women are interested in something from far away, but not too far away and not speaking a foreign language. As ethnic Chinese from Malaysia and elsewhere also count as foreigners the real percentage of white males is actually not such a big figure.
Which males are the best and worst: Best are Tibetans with a score rate of 100%! Only 2 persons from Tibet married a foreign partner and both were male. They both took a Hong Kong girl. Mongolians come in second with a 33%. Out of 95 foreign partners a still impressive 32 were women. Xinjiang was also relatively good. Don’t you start to understand while such statistics are no more published
The worst males in the Tan quota system are from Sichuan: 2’438 persons did choose an “outside” partner but only 5 were male. This is a shocking 0.2%.
I hope the above statistical background helps you with the final definition of the quota
Thanks for your hard work digging up figures. I never looked into actual numbers because my posts are all about perception. Which library did you find these in?
Perceptions are based on numbers
The figures are from the 司法部 statistics from that year. It would be interesting to get more such figures to compare how marriages of Chinese change over time. For 2009 I could only get total figures but no details.
Look, I agree with you morally, but let me be extremely blunt.
As an Asian guy, I don’t like seeing non-Asian men with Asian women. In fact, I’m pretty sure this is true of 99% of guys. There is a visceral, primal reaction when a man sees a woman dating out of his “tribe”. It’s the same OHSHIT feeling you get when a stranger shows up in your house uninvited, followed by urgency, anger and betrayal. This is not a stereotype or an exaggeration. It is universally true, felt by every man no matter how tolerant he is in practice. You might know it as “butthurt”. I’m sure there’s a socio-evolutionary reason for this, maybe something about genetic competition, but that’s not the point. I just want women to know that there men will nearly always feel this way, no matter what he says on the surface. And conversely, every bit of reasoning a guy finds to attack interracial marriage is undoubtedly grounded in those emotions. So I’m not gonna waste my time with that.
My questions to you are these:
1. As a woman, when you see an interracial couple with a member of your own race/ethnic group, do you feel anything similar to what I described?
2. In your honest opinion, would you say women have an inclination to date outside their race/ethnic group? As in, a specific interest in the different and exotic? Because some men do, but I’d say for them it’s more akin to a fetish than a general trend. How about women?
And please no “every person is different” or similar PC lines, those make for very pointless conversations…
Thanks
Hi dim mak,
Thanks for your honest comment. I appreciate that you were blunt but not crude, and you make a fair point. You feel what you feel. I don’t expect every man or woman of any race to feel nothing when they see someone of their own kind dating out; I just hope we’ve progressed enough that tolerance overcomes “butthurt.”
My answers:
1. When I see an Asian man with a non-Asian woman I feel strangely proud and relieved. Proud that “my men,” if I may put it that way, have found success with non-Asian women despite stereotypes and statistics that say they can’t, and relieved because I’m hyperaware of the negativity surrounding Asian women dating out, and I’m glad there are Asian men out there “closing the gap.” I am happy when I see Asian men dating/marrying out of the “tribe.” But I also know I may be unusual in this regard — Asian men have written to me saying that some of the fiercest, meanest critics of their own interracial relationships are actually Asian women. I am sure these Asian women who are critical do feel that sense of “butthurt” that you described. But since I write about this stuff and am in an interracial relationship myself, I really can’t — and have no business — feeling angry or betrayed.
2. Generally speaking, I’d say women do not have an inclination to date outside their race or ethnicity IN ORDER to experience something different and exotic. I think women seek similarities and cultural comforts. Even when we do date interracially, it’s not the difference and exoticism of the other person that turns us on — it’s the commonalities, whether a food habit or similar family values. I’m sorry if that sounds vague — this really is hard to answer if you want me to avoid acknowledging that every person/situation is different.
I see, that’s good to know. Thanks for your answers.
Actually, using the “primal tribes” theory, it isn’t as simple. As you would have to define what a tribe is. There were hundreds of thousands of tribes within Asia, made up of hundreds of thousands of tribes within China, Japan, Korea (etc.) over the past few millenniums. These “tribes” waged war with other tribes (same genetic ethnicity, different tribes). So you’d logically be just as jealous seeing an attractive (fit) Asian female with another Asian male, with that theory.
Now, as far as basic attraction as related to evolutionary theory, then Asian males would actually have an advantage over everyone else with Asian females. It being that Asian women are genetically predisposed to be attracted to Asian men, basically since the beginning of Asian people. And that the most “fit” Asian women end up being attracted to, and reproducing with the most “fit” Asian men. This being attraction being broken down to the most basic evolutionary level.
Of course, attraction has moved a long way from that thanks to the mixing of people, travel, media, world politics, and social structure.
But to put it bluntly, if we’re talking about sexual attraction on a primal level, then who some random Asian female marries doesn’t matter much at all. For the reason that because who she’s genetically predispositioned to want to have sex with the most, she’s might not married to. Actually, there’s a very high chance that who she’s most sexually attracted to, she’s not married to.
(As an example: Shanghai Shiok’s current boyfriend. She’s dating him, and could marry in the future. But he’s likely not the person she’s honestly found MOST sexually attractive or the best looking throughout her single life. – I’m not picking on Shanghai Shiok or her relationship in particular, I’m just trying to explain the complex difference between sexual attraction on an evolutionary level and who people date/marry).
In a general sense, who someone marries also doesn’t matter because she/he could be having sex with someone else while married. Or an Asian female could be more sexually attracted to Asian males but wasn’t “fit” enough to find one. So then, she’d have no choice but to move tribes. You could make this argument too.
Hey Christine,
I recently discovered your blog and I’m a real fan of your articles.
I’m a black male, and I’m dating a Chinese girl(guilty sigh). Anywhere else in the world, this really wouldn’t be a problem. I’m African, and even in my country people don’t really pay much mind to interracial couples.
Here, I have to take it in every day. My own country-mates hate me for dating outside my race, especially the girls. There’s always that ”So you’re too good for black girls, huh?” attitude. I believe it’s the same feeling Asian guys get when they see and your boyfriend. They feel like they’ve been cheated out of a good and intelligent girl. Just like dim mak said, they get that oh shit feeling of betrayal. I don’t even think it’s about quotas at all. It’s all about reasoning on what’s fair and unfair. It’s not fair that all the English speaking/foreign born Asians date outside their race.They’re too good for us the normal people.
That right there is what I think is the main problem. And it will take a long time to change.
I try my best to get about my days, not taking shit from anyone. After all, it’s your partner who’ll come through for you in the toughest of times and not some random small-minded person who can’t accept your relationship.
Keep the cool articles rolling.
I’m glad dim mak asked me what I feel when I see men of my own race dating out. Even when I was single, I felt pride instead of possessiveness, and if there was any jealousy, it was because another girl had beaten me to a great guy, nothing to do with race. Thus, even though I understand there may be natural feelings of betrayal, I can’t help but feel angry at those who choose to indulge in it and direct their hate at others, instead of being as levelheaded as dim mak.
Good luck in your own relationship, Emmanuel, and thanks for reading.
It happened again – Asian girls hating on Asian guy/White girls.
I was talking to my female friend (my friends think she’s into me, but I don’t think so). And she has a couple Asian female friends that date white guys, and she’s cool with it.
I was showing her FB photos of some of the girls I’ve dated, and we get to this white chick and she’s like “she’s ugly.” Straight up she says that.
I mention that girl 1 week later and she goes, “Oh, you mean the ‘ugly white girl’?” (FYI, she is not ugly. She is a certified hottie, errrbody in my college residence thought she was a hot).
It’s really really funny how Asian girls are okay with dating out, but not cool with it when Asian guys date out. Everybody who has close Asian female friends know this. Even my non-Asian friends agree. “Disrespecting certain interracial pairings over others is just another type of small-minded discrimination” – too bad Asian chicks do it all the time.
I think you need to make new Asian female friends. I don’t doubt there are Asian women who hate “their men” dating out, but there are those who don’t.
I might get disparaging remarks about my relationship, but I can’t say that any of it has been from an Asian guy I think of as a good friend.
(Or maybe this girl does like you after all, and she’s just jealous.)
Naw, because if the Asian girl actually liked me, she wouldn’t been cool with the photo of my Asian ex’s. She was just hating on the white ones (despite the fact that some of the Asian female friends date white guys). That wasn’t exactly the point I was trying to make though.
See, point was that sometimes “hate” in terms of racism isn’t obvious, intentional or obvious. A lot of times, at least in North American society, it’s more psychologically innate than blatant. A person could be reacting to people or acting differently, in subtle racist ways, without even realizing it. And I think this is evident in parts of the Asian community.
Nobody would label the Asian girl I was talking to a “racist.” She’s very sweet, but that doesn’t mean she has specific thoughts which lead her to act in certain ways. Because the way you look at it in your blog is, “You either are racist or you aren’t”, and psychologically it doesn’t work like that at all.
I’m not saying that’s true of your relationship, or anyone in particular. But as far as society as a whole goes, it’s not irregular for people to act tolerant because they know it’s the right thing to do, but still have racist thoughts. It’s been proven that people tend to gravitate towards people who like them once they start socialize. People tend to have friends that look similar to them, and tend to marry people of similar attractiveness (it’s most obvious in our teenage years before societal factors like wealth, careers, and commuting start becoming a bigger influence. Biggest example often used would be in a US high school when all the black kids sit at their table, all the Mexican kids at their own table, all the similar dressed white kids at one table etc.) It’s human nature.
I have no problems with interracial relationships. I mean really, I know nothing about you or your relationship, and even if your relationship was unhealthy or based on racial inequality, why would I care? I’m never going to meet you in real life anyways so my life remains unaffected.
My point of posting though is, to make the point that you’re essentially writing, “Be tolerant of interracial relationships like I am, otherwise you’re racist.” But really, the 2 aren’t mutually exclusive. Because you can be a tolerant person, and accepting of interracial relationships, but that doesn’t mean you aren’t effected by racial issues, or that even you aren’t a little racist yourself. It might just mean your tolerant (logical) side is more aware.
See, you’re right, quotas are stupid (even though the US is full of them – just look at the news releases this month that discovered the quotas that keep Asians out of the Ivy leagues).
But I think you should take a look at this: http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/Nov11/RacePaceRomance.html
It shows that overt racism is no longer really a prevalent problem in North America. But there are racist tendencies, which lead to odd societal streams. It’s human nature.
My issue is, you’re denying that your relationship is effected by the societal issues discussed in that article at all. And you can’t deny that, because you really don’t know that. Because anyone who has had a lot of dating experience knows that a lot of times, our relationships or signifigant others aren’t what they seem to be at all. And you may see it 1 way, but that way you could see it could be completely wrong.
In the long run, it doesn’t matter because that’s not going to stop you from being together. But it does make for odd streams sociologically, such as those discussed in that article.
I’m not sure how you’ve concluded from my sporadic blog posts that I think I am not a racist person at all. I have as many racist and racial thoughts as the next normal person. I think the best words ever written about racism are the lyrics to Avenue Q’s “Everybody’s a Little Bit Racist.” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RovF1zsDoeM&feature=related
What I’m trying to write against is hate-fueled racist behavior against interracial pairings. A lot of negative messages I get about interracial relationships are not just teasing comments about how ugly a white person is. They are hateful, sadistic, violent and sometimes terrifying. They scare me. Psychology and your private thoughts are one thing. Putting it out there though words and actions is another. If there is a message I am trying to spread, it’s “Let your tolerant side overcome your intolerant side.” Being jealous or uncomfortable is one thing, lashing out is another.
As for that Cornell article, it can be summed up in this line:
Some people will treat this as just another abstract academic social study, but others are going to take that and use that as ammunition for why white male-minority female relationships are unhealthy and rotten and unequal, and it encourages the “truths” that non-white women are easy lays for white men, and that non-white women use their looks to gain wealthy white men.
You say your issue is that I am denying my relationship is affected by societal issues discussed in that article. That means your issue is that I am denying I was an easy lay for my boyfriend, and I am denying that I used my looks to get a white guy with the best economic traits. I will keep denying that, even as you keep suggesting I am completely wrong.
I wasn’t asserting that you were denying the issues stated in that article. I stated, I could really care less about your relationship specifically, as I said prior it has 0 effect on my life – we don’t even know each other. You could be a total freak with huge fetishes, or a jehovah’s witness – not the point. It’s about responsible writing.
My issue was, you wouldn’t know for sure whether you’re part of that demographic or not. You can say “I am not, deny deny” all you want, wouldn’t make a difference. Because it’s not always something you’re aware of. But you’re pretending that you are aware. And trust me, there are millions of women/men out there that think they know their significant other or understand relationship, then they come back to their lover banging the gardener or having a threesome from freaks met on craigslist. You can’t know – that’s how relationships work, they’re leaps of faith.
Now, a lot of your blog misleads what’s been studied on interracial dating. Share your relationship and your thoughts on that with others – awesome, that’s the beauty of blogging. But statements like this:
“That any racial hierarchy in interracial relationships must be explained using derogatory terms, the often repeated “yellow fever” and “white worship,” etc?”Many anonymous souls who complain that “there are too many white men with Asian women” invariably point to how there are fewer white women with Asian men to justify why the ubiquitous pairing sucks; they point to the disparity to “prove” there’s something problematic about white man/Asian woman relationships.”
– statements like that scream of ignorance. I take it you didn’t study at a major Westcoast University in North America. Because you would not make a statement like that had you taken a social interaction or cultural studies class.
Those type of broad statements, leave them to social psychologists, and sociologists. Because those “anonymous souls” are some of the leading academics in their countries. You’re writing off a lot of intelligent research (ie: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1138351). It’s not about a bunch of bitter “anonymous” Asian/White people being derogatory. It’s about being a responsible writer and not misleading the public.
I’m going to stress that you read that journal article (written by a very successful, and smart Asian-American woman).
The thing is, you live in Shanghai. You say you grew up in Canada, but it doesn’t sound like you went to college in Canada or the Westcoast of the US, where social science classes like sociology, women’s studies, or asian studies would make you aware of such issues.
“On behalf of Asian women like me, I’d like to politely say: What’s this got to do with me? I am not a white woman nor an Asian man. I’d be very happy to see more of them dating each other. I tell white women their preconceptions of emasculated Chinese men are wrong. I tell Chinese men that foreign women make wonderful partners. Short of forcing my white female and Asian male friends together, I don’t have the solution.”
See, it’s not about you specifically, or Asian men, or white men. It’s about women. And THAT has something to do with you. And a start at a “solution” would be to read the journal article linked from Santa Clara before writing very intelligent people (who understand this issue a lot better than you do) as “anonymous souls”. Because they are far from it.
There’s the belief that China doesn’t take psychological studies and issues very seriously, and you’re really pushing that stereotype.
Kyle, I spent years reading studies about race and gender, feeling increasingly distanced from the reality of what I was studying. Sitting in a club in Shanghai taught me more about the globalization of white imperialism and sexualization of minority women than four years at Queen’s and a postgrad at LSE.
By the way, the “anonymous souls” I was referring to are the anonymous people who send me hate-filled comments.
It’s obvious this is going nowhere, as you have a set view on your mind, and that views not going to be swayed. So this will be my last comment on this topic:
1. Queen’s would actually be one of the worst schools in Canada for Asian studies and cultural sociology. Queen’s isn’t even Top 4 in Canada anymore (UofT, UBC, McGill, U. of Alberta).
Canadians that actually get Canada’s subculture, and are integrated into the college social culture know that Queen’s isn’t known as the most Asian-friendly school in Canada (google: Maclean’s “Too Asian”). As far as LSE, I barely know anything about it, but weren’t they ranked 67th in the world by UK’s own rankings?
So essentially your knowledge on this topic comes from a University in Canada that has 0 interest in Asian-Canadian studies, isn’t known for its diversity, and is heavy focus on business school has it well behind UBC, UofT, and McGill overall.
Point is, you weren’t taught at a college with a social sciences department that does research much research on topic. Had you gone to UBC, UofT, Santa Clara U, California State University- Fullerton, or U of Hawaii you’d have a more informed perspective.
2. I don’t care if you were bored in class. Because you sat in a bar in Shanghai doesn’t mean anything. I use to party 6 days a week my first year of college at frats and nightclubs. The only thing you learn about people there is that alcohol might make you wake up the next day wondering whose puke is on the floor and who the chick is next to you.
Really, I just don’t get why so many of your posts have to do with interracial relationships as a whole, when you probably don’t have that much experience dating interracially. Nor does it look like you have much a background in social justice, sociology, or ethnic studies.
Kyle -
A couple of things that I’d like to say.
1. I am not “banging the gardener or having a threesome from freaks met on craigslist.”
2. If you think that going to a university in “Canada or the Westcoast of the US, where social science classes like sociology, women’s studies, or asian studies” makes you more worldly, then, my friend, you have some life experience to acquire.
That is all.
Dear Kyle –
This was an interesting thread. And I saw where you were going, but let it be stated that your last statement’s smug entitlement, harassment of Christine’s alma mater and staid reliance on a) academic papers b) school rankings to drive an argument undermined your entire thought process, because I wanted to punch you in the face.
Sincerely,
Academic
Hi Kyle,
I’m a social science student. I ditched McGill and UBC for University of Toronto. And guess what, I think you’re misguided for emphasizing school and rankings over personal experience.
Rankings are generally bullshit. Only insecure people judge others based on them. One thing is for sure, rankings say nothing about a student’s personal sense of satisfaction nor academic accomplishment. I do not think higher of myself over others because of my school. Sure, UofT could be in the top 20, but I don’t think I’m in the top 20 among any other students who might’ve been happier and gained more studying elsewhere.
i appreciate you making our lives more interesting, though.
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